I have given my Brooks Swift saddle a good chance to be the one, but have come to the conclusion that I prefer my Berthoud Aspin / touring saddle. Before the swift heads off for sale I thought I would offer it up for trade, preferably for the above mentioned Berthoud. The swift is Antique Brown with chrome steel rails. Condition is near new, treated with profhide on both sides and never ridden in the wet. The break in is minimal, and the only downside is the slight indication of the saddle rail at the cantle plate.
Thanks for taking a look
This is the most beautiful bike I have built up yet. I would even go as far as saying it is nicer than my roadeo from Rivendell. After years of reading on the web and doing multiple 650b conversions on my own, this one went together perfectly the first time. With some careful planning, part procurement and patience this bike went together as if it were always meant to be this way.
This Trek 613 started its life as a 27" wheeled touring bike back in 1981, and by the looks of it once in my garage, it was barely ever ridden. There are a few scuffs in the paint, but most of the damage appears to have happened while in storage. The visible portions of the frame's interior were pristine. I treated the inside with a liberal coating of T9 to keep it rust free as long as possible. For this build I was able to reuse much of the drive train, replacing only the wheels, cassette, and bottom bracket. The headset was preserved, and rebuilt with loose balls and phil grease.
The cockpit was built up with a Nitto Technomic Delux stem, Albatross bars and Shimano brake levers. The brass bell is from Crane in Japan. The grips are blue Neubaums cloth tape over a layer of cork tape. Three layers of garnet shellac brought the final color to a fantastic dark patinaed coppery green that is a perfect contrast to the copper color of the bike. Te saddle is a Brooks B17 Special Select.
The front rack is a Bruce Gordon MTN rack that used to reside on my bike and will be the temporary support system for the Wald basket. While the basket provides incredible versatility, the stock hardware is not up to the task at hand. In the long run this will be set up with a rack that will allow for panniers in a low mount with a high mount to support the basket. The fork dropout only has a single eyelet to support both the rack and fender. My work around for this is to thread in a hex bolt from the inside, providing a stud to mount both. The whole assembly is then held on with a lock nut. In theory if the nut ever came loose, it should all still be able to be held in place with a zip tie until you could get to a hardware store.
I utilised Dia-Compe 750 centerpull brakes to get the required reach to the smaller rims. The stock pads were replaced with KoolStop Cross Pads. The wheel set is Shimano Tiagra laced to Velocity Synergy rims. I opted to use an 8spd rear cassette to hopefully be a bit more forgiving with the Suntour Symmetric DT shifters. The downside to this is that the shifters only move the chain across 7 of the 8 cogs due to the limited throw.
Now for the part that everybody cares about. I opted to use Panaracer Col De La Vie tires on this bike to ensure adequate tire clearance at the chain stays. These older Trek frames, pre 82, will generally have room for a tire up to 38mm wide without needing to dimple the stays for more space. Spreading the rear from 126 to 130 mm at the dropouts while adding tire space in theory did not make a noticeable difference in reality. The fenders are Berthoud 650b x 50 mm. These were fairly simple to install, only requires minor re-shaping to accommodate the horizontal stays, leave plenty of room to install wider tires in the future and resulted in near perfect fender line around the tire. I did make a wooden mandrel to help shape indents for better fender clearance at the fork and chain stays. The rear brake bridge attachment was made with Honjo hardware. The connection at the chain stay bridge was made with a long bold and spacer. While a spacer is not ideal, it seemed a better option than moving the bridge on a bike in this condition.
Rear wheel at mid-dropout.
Rear wheel all the way back in the dropouts.
I would like to thank a whole bunch of people for sharing their knowledge on the web. If not for the collective knowledge provided by old Rivendell Readers, the iBoB and 650b email lists and the Bicycle Quarterly publication I likely would not have been able to work through this build in a single pass. It is the knowledge shared by those who have gone this way before that helped me to build such a wonderful bike.
Likewise, online vendors such as Universal Cycles, Rene Herse Cycles, Wallingford Bike, and Ben's Cycle all made it possible to source the needed components.
This bike is going to have a new lease on life. Its owner is going to pick her up tonight. The planned maiden voyage will be a 90 mile ride home from Jalama state park. I wish I was along for the ride, it is going to be a good day tomorrow. Thanks to Mike for giving me the chance to build this bike up as a blue-collar constructeur.
Off to cleain it up for delivery, thanks for taking a look.
Earlier this week I landed a Brooks Swift in trade for a B17 I had on a bike that sees only occasional use. This presented me with the opportunity to take some side by side comparison shots. The pictures tell a good bit of the story (L toR Berthoud Touring, Brooks B17 and Brooks Swift:
The Bi7 is a few years old with about 7K miles on it. The Berthoud is now two years old with about 5k miles on it, and the Swift is fresh out of the box. All three saddles have a similar plan shape that I prefer, the relatively wide flat rear with a quick drop and taper through the nose of the saddle. I am pretty big at 6'3" and 210 lbs, and the wider saddles provide adequate support for my sit bones while the arrow nose reduces the chance for thigh rub. Also, all three saddles have steel rails. While the general shape is similar, the overall dimensions vary as shown:
Saddle
Weight (g)
Length (mm)
Width (mm)
Berthoud Touring
509
278
158
Brooks B17
557
285
170
Brooks Swift
504
273
153
The one thing that the stats do not clearly indicate is the flatness of the rear portion, or more exactly the way the flatness drops off outside of the four central rivets. The B17 and the Berthoud both remain flat almost to the outer edge of the saddle. The Swift while flat in the center, drops off in a taper towards the front and sides, leading to a much narrower fit than the dimension may let on.
In the picture showing the rails, I lined all three up with the forward most point of rail mountablity in the same position. When on my bikes all three are pushed back as far as they can go. With this position my sit bones hit just forward of the second rivets from center. Thus while there is some variation in length of the rails on the three different saddles it is kind of moot point for how I have them on the bike.
While I have only logged 50 miles or so on the Swift I can say that I love all three equally but different. The B17 is perfect on bike where the bars are at or above saddle height. The wider rear better accommodates the wider stance of my sit bones when in a more upright position. I also find that the B17 is much more comfortable with thinner shorts and a chamois adds more bulk than is needed. The Swift is more suited to bikes where the bars are below saddle height. The narrower contact patch adequately supports my sit bones with my torso rolled forward, yet the drop off at the corners and narrow nose keep the pressure off of places where you do not want it. So far I have only ridden the Swift with my Ibex knickers that have a chamois, but based on my initial impressions I look forward to this saddle when things warm up a bit and I get back to my normal shorts. The Berthoud is my Goldilocks saddle. I have had it on every bike in the garage, bars high or low it was comfortable. The sweet spot was with the bars at saddle height on the Roadeo. I am hoping that with some break in the Swift will be as comfortable.
The Swift is on the Roadeo for break in and experimenting with the bars set below the saddle. I am looking forward to putting the miles in with this one.
This afternoon I had some time to take the Roadeo fork over to the big brown trucks and ship it back to its creator for repair.
Then I rambled all through town, followed the signs for the "Bike Route" for the first time, Up through the hill-side neighborhoods finding many dead ends, and then up through the park to home.
Perfect way to cap off the week. Now to get dinner ready.
Enjoy your weekend, Play outside!!
It has been a little over a year since I first picked up a Berthoud Touring saddle to add to my rotation of Brooks B17 saddles in the stable. I had been drawn to the Berthoud after going through a couple of the more recently produced brooks B17 saddles that were made with thin and fast deforming leather. Looking at the options, it was either back to plastic, vintage or the Berthoud. The Berthoud was reported to be somewhere between a Brooks B17, team pro and swift in shape. This on came up on eBay, and I was first, impulse struck and it was mine. The cork finish while growing on me would not have been my first choice, but the price was right and I do not have to see it while riding.
Out of the box impression was very high. The engineering and design are sound, everything was tight symmetrical and the leather was far thicker than any of my other Brooks saddles yet was not as hard as the Brooks Pro I had looked into as a possible alternate. The plastic cantle plate and hardware are all top-notch with the precision you would expect to see on a european sports car. I have read concerns about the use of plastic. After having the saddle in my hands any concern is now gone. The molding and assembly is top-notch showing not of the cheapness the work plastic infers, and should likely be relabeled as molded composite. I find the design aesthetic pleasing, with a more modern cut to traditional leather saddle.
Initially I mounted the saddle on My Eisentraut for the spring and summer. After a few initial adjustments the position of the saddle was similar to that of my Brooks saddles with thee exception of tilt. The Berthoud is much better set almost level to the ground. Comfort was immediate, no break in required and I put in a couple 40 mile rides in the first week I had the saddle. The shape is a bit flatter in the rear than the Brooks offerings while having steep drop off in the transition to narrow nose. My sit bones are well supported with zero thigh rub. I should note that I previously bought and sold a Selle Anatomica due to the excessive thigh rub I had with the more triangular shape of that saddle.
Over the summer it just kept getting better. While the saddle started to match my shape of my sit bones, the post ride deformation was barely noticeable. The saddle leather is reported to be waterproof, and with the rainy season in the rear view mirror I was relying on sweat to indicate if this was true, but there was never any indication of moisture damage
Around mid summer I was having trouble with getting the B17 on my Roadeo just right. The roadeo was becoming my primary ride and I moved the Berthoud over. Problem solved immediately. Summer into fall, roads paved and dirt, as well as some single track and the saddle was going strong. Only at one point on a long hot dirt climb did I notice the saddle becoming a bit too compliant. Closer inspection on a water break revealed that a few of the screws had started to loosen up a bit. Tightening up with the allen key on my multi tool was sufficient to complete the ride. That evening I removed each screw one at a time and added a little blue loctite before reinstalling the screws. It has been over 6 months since this incident with no further indication of further loosening.
With the onset of our rainy season I was once again wondering about the water proof claim for the leather. Throwing caution to the wind I have ridden the saddle in multiple storms. The only additional protection came from fenders and my soaked body sitting on it. Once again after weeks of rain there is no indication of moisture damage.
The leather is holding up incredibly well considering the abuse my 220 lbs has thrown at it over the last 14 months. Of the 5 brooks saddles I have owned only 2 have performed this well and three were duds. The leather appears to be waterproof as claimed, it will get a matte finish when damp, but dries back to a shine. The cork color has rubbed off a bit on the nose. I have not yet needed to adjust the tension, although curiosity is getting the better of me and I may start to play with it a bit in the coming weeks. I would whole heartedly recommend these saddles to anyone looking for an alternative to the brooks offerings. While the price is a little higher, I have more faith in these saddle's ability to perform as claimed right out of the box.
Watching the sun come up over the strawberry fields, the smell of fresh food all through your ride is fantastic.
And on the way home, the siren song to the north
Some of you may remember my love of riding for wild or semi wild foods from my Walnut Ride. Time to enjoy the dry weather and the morning chill, and ride for the pomegranates I had seen a few weeks ago. No laws were broken and the trees are on public easement. Living in an area surrounded by agriculture it would be all to easy to just grab fruit from the end row of the farms and orchards, but that would kind of defeat the point, and I am pretty sure it is stealing. These particular trees are on the fence line of land grabbed by the water district when they built the Casitas damn. Many ranchers and homeowners lost land to eminent domain with this one, and there are quite a bit of interesting things tucked into the corners of this area without having to jump the fences lined with "No Trespassing" signs. This morning it was a truncated version of a favorite loop to get the quarry and make it home in time for baby duty. Having fresh fruit keeps you out of trouble when you are a little late.
I am looking forward to daylight savings time coming to an end, a little more morning light for a bit.
My RawlanddSogn has been one of the best value bikes I have ever put together. I was able to pick up the frame and fork as a blem in the fall of 2009 and build it up almost completely from components I had in the garage, keeping the utility to out-of-pocket cost ratio very high. These were designed to be run as 650b mountain bikes with a heavy nod to the bridgestone Bridgestone XO-1. Many of the bikes designed and sold by bridgestone during the 90's were intended to be as versatile as possible and not just a "mountain bike "or "road bike". The sogn's design intent was to be everything from your dirt road touring to daily commuter. While designed for 650b x 55mm tires, the disc brakes allowed me to easily build mine up as a 700c x 42mm and still have room for fenders when things get wet. The rest of the build settled into the following after a few changes:
Handle bar: Nitto RM013 Riv Dirt Drop
Levers: Shimano Tigra
Shifters: Shimano Bar end / Suntour Barcon NOS
Cables/Housing: Jagwire Ripcord
Stem: Velo Orange
Tape: Soma Thick and Zesty
Bell: Crane Brass (mounted to drilled and tapped spacer)
Headset: Chris King Sotto Voce
Brakes: Avid BB7 Disc Road
Seatpost: Salsa Shaft
Saddle: Brooks B-17
Bottom Bracket: Shimano cartridge
Crankset: Shimano Shimano LX vintage 94bcd
Pedals: Sakae Low Fats (I have wide Feet)
Tires: Jack Brown Green - Panaracer FireCross - Schwalbe Marathon Extreme
Rims: Velocity Dyad 40h
Hubs: Whit industries M16
Bags: Carradice Nelson longflap and Carradice Hobo bag (Rivendell Prototype)
Racks: Old Man Mountain Sherpa rear and Bruce Gordon front
I have used this bike as my weekend produce hauler, after work mountain bike, 200K ride, mixed terrain bomber, commuter and rain bike. While the ride is not nearly as lively as the Roadeo, it is still far better than either the Surly Cross Check or the Haro Mary that this bike replaced. The steel frame is comfortable for long days in the saddle, especially with loads, and does not leave me feeling beat up.
While not my "One" bike, this one has come close, and there are only a few tweaks I would make if it were ever to be replaced. I would not say it is perfect, but when cost is factored in, as well as level of expectation for an off the shelf production bike it is an excellet value.
My default gofast bike is my Rivendell Roadeo. The frame and fork are from Rivendell Bicycle Works.Build:
Handle bar: Nitto RM013 Riv Dirt Drop
Levers: Tektro
Shifters: Suntour Barcon NOS
Cables/Housing: Jagwire Titanium Finish
Stem: Nitto Technomic Delux
Tape: Soma Thick and Zesty
Bell: Crane Brass (needs to go back on)
Headset: Stronglight A9
Brakes: Shimano Ultrega BR-B600 (KoolStop Shoes)
Seatpost: Vintage Shimano Dura Ace
Saddle: Brooks B-17 / Berthoud Touring
Bottom Bracket: Phil Wood 103
Crankset: Ritchey Logic Compact
Pedals: Sakae Low Fats (I have wide Feet)
Tires: Jack Brown Green
Rims: Mavic A117
Hubs: Phil Wood Rivy Freewheel
Freewheel: IRD 6sp 13-28
Bags: Acorn Saddle and Handlebar bag
Parts were a mix of deal hunting, stuff I had and some new from Rivendell. Some of you might even recognise stuff you sold me. I ride this bike for near everything short of technical single track and loads of stuff greater than 15lbs. After almost a year of riding I still love this bike. It has more than served its purpose and there is little I would change.
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Thanks for taking a look
